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	<title>Comments on: Bitten in the butt by debug code again</title>
	<link>http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/04/28/bitten-in-the-butt-by-debug-code-again/</link>
	<description>News and thoughts about my adventures in Second Life, Combat: Samurai Island, and Virtual Worlds</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 06 Sep 2008 03:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Solace Obviate</title>
		<link>http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/04/28/bitten-in-the-butt-by-debug-code-again/#comment-1235</link>
		<dc:creator>Solace Obviate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 13:23:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/04/28/bitten-in-the-butt-by-debug-code-again/#comment-1235</guid>
		<description>Ok, one last thought on the nagi ranges.  Might it change depending on what sim one is in and the version of the physics engine that is running.  *puts pinky to mouth like Dr. Evil*  I'm starting to get those "the sim you are entering is running a different blah blah blah" meesages on TP again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, one last thought on the nagi ranges.  Might it change depending on what sim one is in and the version of the physics engine that is running.  *puts pinky to mouth like Dr. Evil*  I&#8217;m starting to get those &#8220;the sim you are entering is running a different blah blah blah&#8221; meesages on TP again.</p>
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		<title>By: Takuan</title>
		<link>http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/04/28/bitten-in-the-butt-by-debug-code-again/#comment-1225</link>
		<dc:creator>Takuan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 00:35:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/04/28/bitten-in-the-butt-by-debug-code-again/#comment-1225</guid>
		<description>I'll look into this as soon as possible :)  Last I heard Archanox was just &lt;b&gt;insanely&lt;/b&gt; busy, but if I can find anything out I'll send him a notecard or something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll look into this as soon as possible <img src='http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' />  Last I heard Archanox was just <b>insanely</b> busy, but if I can find anything out I&#8217;ll send him a notecard or something.</p>
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		<title>By: Cian</title>
		<link>http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/04/28/bitten-in-the-butt-by-debug-code-again/#comment-1224</link>
		<dc:creator>Cian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 May 2008 00:00:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/04/28/bitten-in-the-butt-by-debug-code-again/#comment-1224</guid>
		<description>Well I can guarantee the Nagi has a longer kick range.  I was sparring the other day and my opponent could land kicks on me when I could not do the same.  I'm not sure which sword I was using it might have been the Dynasty or the Take.  Can't remember though.

&lt;em&gt;Cian's latest blog post is : &lt;a href='http://tsukurite.blogspot.com/2008/04/cast-and-crew.html' rel="nofollow"&gt;Cast and Crew&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I can guarantee the Nagi has a longer kick range.  I was sparring the other day and my opponent could land kicks on me when I could not do the same.  I&#8217;m not sure which sword I was using it might have been the Dynasty or the Take.  Can&#8217;t remember though.</p>
<p><em>Cian&#8217;s latest blog post is : <a href='http://tsukurite.blogspot.com/2008/04/cast-and-crew.html' rel="nofollow">Cast and Crew</a></em></p>
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		<title>By: Solace Obviate</title>
		<link>http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/04/28/bitten-in-the-butt-by-debug-code-again/#comment-1223</link>
		<dc:creator>Solace Obviate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/04/28/bitten-in-the-butt-by-debug-code-again/#comment-1223</guid>
		<description>Well I just tried sparring against a Taketori with my Musashi Black Rose.  I was able to counterslash just fine.  However I could not reliably use a slash-block sqeuence against a kick-slash-block from the Take.  My block would simply not beat the Take counterslash very often.  Is this a speed issue with the Take?  Um...it really reminds me of when i sparred kasumi a long time ago using my HoD against ehr Eternal.  Same issue.  I could slash her kick but could never get my block up in time to negate her counterslash.  WHen she changed to her HoD, I had a mush easier time with the countering and tanking.  In this context, I think the speed of the Taketori in the tank is not an issue of balance but one of sword to sword variation.

Additionally, I heard about some kick range testing going on in Bloodlines recently and tried it myself.  As was reported to me, I also found that the nagi slash and kick distances were the same as the ranges of the HoD, Black Rose, and Wave.  Is this an H4 finding?  Makes one wonder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well I just tried sparring against a Taketori with my Musashi Black Rose.  I was able to counterslash just fine.  However I could not reliably use a slash-block sqeuence against a kick-slash-block from the Take.  My block would simply not beat the Take counterslash very often.  Is this a speed issue with the Take?  Um&#8230;it really reminds me of when i sparred kasumi a long time ago using my HoD against ehr Eternal.  Same issue.  I could slash her kick but could never get my block up in time to negate her counterslash.  WHen she changed to her HoD, I had a mush easier time with the countering and tanking.  In this context, I think the speed of the Taketori in the tank is not an issue of balance but one of sword to sword variation.</p>
<p>Additionally, I heard about some kick range testing going on in Bloodlines recently and tried it myself.  As was reported to me, I also found that the nagi slash and kick distances were the same as the ranges of the HoD, Black Rose, and Wave.  Is this an H4 finding?  Makes one wonder.</p>
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		<title>By: Malachi Rothschild</title>
		<link>http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/04/28/bitten-in-the-butt-by-debug-code-again/#comment-1222</link>
		<dc:creator>Malachi Rothschild</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/04/28/bitten-in-the-butt-by-debug-code-again/#comment-1222</guid>
		<description>re: nagi kick.

I don't know what it is. Maybe it's due to the animation. I can slash a kick from a katana and rarely ever miss. I might be late but my aim is fine. On more than one occasion I've tried to slash a nagi kick and failed while the nagi user was still able to connect with their kick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>re: nagi kick.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what it is. Maybe it&#8217;s due to the animation. I can slash a kick from a katana and rarely ever miss. I might be late but my aim is fine. On more than one occasion I&#8217;ve tried to slash a nagi kick and failed while the nagi user was still able to connect with their kick.</p>
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		<title>By: Takuan</title>
		<link>http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/04/28/bitten-in-the-butt-by-debug-code-again/#comment-1221</link>
		<dc:creator>Takuan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/04/28/bitten-in-the-butt-by-debug-code-again/#comment-1221</guid>
		<description>I wish I had the code for the nagi so I could verify this.  Esprite says the nagi kick range is the same as a katana, lots of people seem to disagree, and I don't get to see Archanox much to ask him myself (his schedule is worse than mine, haha).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish I had the code for the nagi so I could verify this.  Esprite says the nagi kick range is the same as a katana, lots of people seem to disagree, and I don&#8217;t get to see Archanox much to ask him myself (his schedule is worse than mine, haha).</p>
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		<title>By: Cian</title>
		<link>http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/04/28/bitten-in-the-butt-by-debug-code-again/#comment-1220</link>
		<dc:creator>Cian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Apr 2008 18:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/04/28/bitten-in-the-butt-by-debug-code-again/#comment-1220</guid>
		<description>I agree if, and I do mean if, there is any imbalance with the Tak it's far less than the Nagi.  I just won't fight against Nagi hardly at all anymore.  Any weapon that increases your kick range is definitely a problem. Very unrealistic.

&lt;em&gt;Cian's latest blog post is : &lt;a href='http://tsukurite.blogspot.com/2008/04/cast-and-crew.html' rel="nofollow"&gt;Cast and Crew&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree if, and I do mean if, there is any imbalance with the Tak it&#8217;s far less than the Nagi.  I just won&#8217;t fight against Nagi hardly at all anymore.  Any weapon that increases your kick range is definitely a problem. Very unrealistic.</p>
<p><em>Cian&#8217;s latest blog post is : <a href='http://tsukurite.blogspot.com/2008/04/cast-and-crew.html' rel="nofollow">Cast and Crew</a></em></p>
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		<title>By: Kasumi Hashi</title>
		<link>http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/04/28/bitten-in-the-butt-by-debug-code-again/#comment-1207</link>
		<dc:creator>Kasumi Hashi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 21:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/04/28/bitten-in-the-butt-by-debug-code-again/#comment-1207</guid>
		<description>I know you can't really comment on this... but... why are half of the C:SI devs involved and concerned and the other half totally absent? Like the discussion about problems with the Nagi are approaching their one year anniversary... every responsible sensei in C:SI tells their students to stay away from the duals unless you want to challenge yourself... and there is no indication from either of them that they have any awareness or concern about it.  I know you can't acknowledge this but you and Esprite are the only ones that don't seem to be completely indifferent and out of touch.  (Just had a couple glasses of wine so I'm letting it all out, sorry, lolz).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know you can&#8217;t really comment on this&#8230; but&#8230; why are half of the C:SI devs involved and concerned and the other half totally absent? Like the discussion about problems with the Nagi are approaching their one year anniversary&#8230; every responsible sensei in C:SI tells their students to stay away from the duals unless you want to challenge yourself&#8230; and there is no indication from either of them that they have any awareness or concern about it.  I know you can&#8217;t acknowledge this but you and Esprite are the only ones that don&#8217;t seem to be completely indifferent and out of touch.  (Just had a couple glasses of wine so I&#8217;m letting it all out, sorry, lolz).</p>
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		<title>By: Takuan</title>
		<link>http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/04/28/bitten-in-the-butt-by-debug-code-again/#comment-1204</link>
		<dc:creator>Takuan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 21:30:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/04/28/bitten-in-the-butt-by-debug-code-again/#comment-1204</guid>
		<description>That's pretty well put :)

As for the other devs using the same idea...  I'm not so sure that it's been a net positive yet.  Or, at least, nothing else I've done has generated quite as much polarization.  I've had some more thoughts on how to make this a bit more solid and less quirky that I want to try out this weekend, and if I'm right it does work correctly then of course I'll happily share everything with the other devs and evangelize it as much as possible.  

But the method used in the Taketori has known quirks, and possibly unknown ones, and until those are resolved I can't feel perfectly comfortable trying to convince the others to use it.  Did that make any sense?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s pretty well put <img src='http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>As for the other devs using the same idea&#8230;  I&#8217;m not so sure that it&#8217;s been a net positive yet.  Or, at least, nothing else I&#8217;ve done has generated quite as much polarization.  I&#8217;ve had some more thoughts on how to make this a bit more solid and less quirky that I want to try out this weekend, and if I&#8217;m right it does work correctly then of course I&#8217;ll happily share everything with the other devs and evangelize it as much as possible.  </p>
<p>But the method used in the Taketori has known quirks, and possibly unknown ones, and until those are resolved I can&#8217;t feel perfectly comfortable trying to convince the others to use it.  Did that make any sense?</p>
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		<title>By: Kasumi Hashi</title>
		<link>http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/04/28/bitten-in-the-butt-by-debug-code-again/#comment-1203</link>
		<dc:creator>Kasumi Hashi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Apr 2008 21:22:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/04/28/bitten-in-the-butt-by-debug-code-again/#comment-1203</guid>
		<description>I promised myself to try to not peek in too much on C:SI stuff, but I thought I should follow up that IM I sent about the Taketori.

"...and with all of the talk lately about the Taketori being unbalanced (which I am not at all convinced of, by the way)..."

My nontechnical opinion is the Taketori might be working better than the other 3 makes of katana, in that it responds to user intentions more consistently in varying conditions because of your lag beating thing you did (with the back up signal for all the strikes).  At least I think that's what's going on *if* its not faster (you said something about having numbers to show it isn't).  That might explain the range of feeling about it; its so well made, and handles so nicely, that even if people with the system sensitivity to tell a difference are less bothered by it because it feels "right".

The reason that I thought it might still be fast was because of the last time I sparred, with Silver in Bloodlines.  I lost the first three while I used a Musashi.  I was unable to counter most of the kicks (which is usually an easy thing to do while taking vs a katana) and the follow up slash I couldn't block.  So everything she did was a step ahead.  I could tell it was a sword issue right away, so switched to my Taketori.  I won the next 2.  The difference was very obvious, it was like "oh, that's how she was doing it".  So point was I couldn't keep up until I switched to a Taketori, and the difference was really unmistakable.

But again, it might be just that the Taketori was handling better in the lag because of your solution, and the Musashi could not keep up (even though the pace did feel distinctly faster than what I expect in a katana vs katana spar).  So if its not faster, it is at the *very least* faster in some conditions relative to a Musashi (and probably the same with an ashes or arch katana).

Much more subjectively, I think it makes a lot of sense for the other developers to do what you have done with their models, since the Taketori does handle so well.  It might not make sense to make yours as clunky and inconsistent as the other weapons for the sake of balance, especially when balance has become a marginal concern in the community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I promised myself to try to not peek in too much on C:SI stuff, but I thought I should follow up that IM I sent about the Taketori.</p>
<p>&#8220;&#8230;and with all of the talk lately about the Taketori being unbalanced (which I am not at all convinced of, by the way)&#8230;&#8221;</p>
<p>My nontechnical opinion is the Taketori might be working better than the other 3 makes of katana, in that it responds to user intentions more consistently in varying conditions because of your lag beating thing you did (with the back up signal for all the strikes).  At least I think that&#8217;s what&#8217;s going on *if* its not faster (you said something about having numbers to show it isn&#8217;t).  That might explain the range of feeling about it; its so well made, and handles so nicely, that even if people with the system sensitivity to tell a difference are less bothered by it because it feels &#8220;right&#8221;.</p>
<p>The reason that I thought it might still be fast was because of the last time I sparred, with Silver in Bloodlines.  I lost the first three while I used a Musashi.  I was unable to counter most of the kicks (which is usually an easy thing to do while taking vs a katana) and the follow up slash I couldn&#8217;t block.  So everything she did was a step ahead.  I could tell it was a sword issue right away, so switched to my Taketori.  I won the next 2.  The difference was very obvious, it was like &#8220;oh, that&#8217;s how she was doing it&#8221;.  So point was I couldn&#8217;t keep up until I switched to a Taketori, and the difference was really unmistakable.</p>
<p>But again, it might be just that the Taketori was handling better in the lag because of your solution, and the Musashi could not keep up (even though the pace did feel distinctly faster than what I expect in a katana vs katana spar).  So if its not faster, it is at the *very least* faster in some conditions relative to a Musashi (and probably the same with an ashes or arch katana).</p>
<p>Much more subjectively, I think it makes a lot of sense for the other developers to do what you have done with their models, since the Taketori does handle so well.  It might not make sense to make yours as clunky and inconsistent as the other weapons for the sake of balance, especially when balance has become a marginal concern in the community.</p>
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