Comments on: Small avatars, bounding boxes, and combat http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/02/21/small-avatars-bounding-boxes-and-combat/ News and thoughts about my adventures in Second Life, Combat: Samurai Island, and Virtual Worlds Wed, 07 Jan 2009 03:39:37 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Solace Obviate http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/02/21/small-avatars-bounding-boxes-and-combat/#comment-387 Solace Obviate Sun, 24 Feb 2008 17:39:19 +0000 http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/02/21/small-avatars-bounding-boxes-and-combat/#comment-387 I completely agree with Judo. When sparring Aimee (hi hi!!) I have to shrink myself down just so I can see her reactions. It's easier for me to do that than to practice refocusing my mouse position on my desk, which requires that I pan as well angle downard (my foam wrist pad makes this a little cumbersome). I've also done this the few times that I've sparred Malachi, as well as the tiny furry avatars. I completely agree with Judo. When sparring Aimee (hi hi!!) I have to shrink myself down just so I can see her reactions. It’s easier for me to do that than to practice refocusing my mouse position on my desk, which requires that I pan as well angle downard (my foam wrist pad makes this a little cumbersome). I’ve also done this the few times that I’ve sparred Malachi, as well as the tiny furry avatars.

]]> By: Takuan http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/02/21/small-avatars-bounding-boxes-and-combat/#comment-381 Takuan Sun, 24 Feb 2008 04:44:34 +0000 http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/02/21/small-avatars-bounding-boxes-and-combat/#comment-381 I don't have a tiny shape, haha. I should probably make or buy one, but everyone that knows me knows that I don't pay like any attention to my avatar *at all*, and only change it maybe once a year :) I don’t have a tiny shape, haha.

I should probably make or buy one, but everyone that knows me knows that I don’t pay like any attention to my avatar *at all*, and only change it maybe once a year :)

]]> By: Judo Jung http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/02/21/small-avatars-bounding-boxes-and-combat/#comment-379 Judo Jung Sun, 24 Feb 2008 04:35:05 +0000 http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/02/21/small-avatars-bounding-boxes-and-combat/#comment-379 The problem with tracking small avatars in mouselook is real but easily solved; shrink yourself or ask your opponent to grow. I have a tiny Judo that I sometimes use for sparring micro avs. The problem with tracking small avatars in mouselook is real but easily solved; shrink yourself or ask your opponent to grow. I have a tiny Judo that I sometimes use for sparring micro avs.

]]> By: Takuan http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/02/21/small-avatars-bounding-boxes-and-combat/#comment-368 Takuan Sat, 23 Feb 2008 00:01:44 +0000 http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/02/21/small-avatars-bounding-boxes-and-combat/#comment-368 <blockquote>Also, when you are looking down your sword slashes that miss hit the ground, which makes a noise. This can trick either person into thinking that they are stunned.</blockquote> Yes, I hate that, quite frankly. I don't believe that anything can be done about it, however :(

Also, when you are looking down your sword slashes that miss hit the ground, which makes a noise. This can trick either person into thinking that they are stunned.

Yes, I hate that, quite frankly. I don’t believe that anything can be done about it, however :(

]]> By: Takuan http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/02/21/small-avatars-bounding-boxes-and-combat/#comment-367 Takuan Fri, 22 Feb 2008 23:55:40 +0000 http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/02/21/small-avatars-bounding-boxes-and-combat/#comment-367 @Colin, Yes, that's true, and I've experienced it myself on many occasions. I would never argue that there is no difference at all, but I would definitely argue that the justification given by that fighter mentioned in the original post - smaller targets being harder to hit - is not technically true. All the other things you mention are definitely true :) @Colin,

Yes, that’s true, and I’ve experienced it myself on many occasions.

I would never argue that there is no difference at all, but I would definitely argue that the justification given by that fighter mentioned in the original post - smaller targets being harder to hit - is not technically true.

All the other things you mention are definitely true :)

]]> By: Colin http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/02/21/small-avatars-bounding-boxes-and-combat/#comment-363 Colin Fri, 22 Feb 2008 23:40:34 +0000 http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/02/21/small-avatars-bounding-boxes-and-combat/#comment-363 I think there are some differences when sparring a small avatar. As Malachi said, the perspective changes in mouselook because you have to look down. For some swords, this can actually mean that now your view is blocked by your sword and your hands, when this wasn't an issue if you could look straight ahead. Yes, you can still hit the person looking straight ahead, but you can't see what they are doing. Also, when you are looking down your sword slashes that miss hit the ground, which makes a noise. This can trick either person into thinking that they are stunned. I think there are some differences when sparring a small avatar. As Malachi said, the perspective changes in mouselook because you have to look down. For some swords, this can actually mean that now your view is blocked by your sword and your hands, when this wasn’t an issue if you could look straight ahead. Yes, you can still hit the person looking straight ahead, but you can’t see what they are doing. Also, when you are looking down your sword slashes that miss hit the ground, which makes a noise. This can trick either person into thinking that they are stunned.

]]> By: Aimee Congrejo http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/02/21/small-avatars-bounding-boxes-and-combat/#comment-357 Aimee Congrejo Fri, 22 Feb 2008 20:50:21 +0000 http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/02/21/small-avatars-bounding-boxes-and-combat/#comment-357 Yah, I'm normally 5'0" even but I also got a male 6'4"ish shape that I use occasionally. I'd have to go back and like do some real tests to be able to write down results but it's definitely different. I've found that my tinier shape "skates" more cuz of physics hiccups in really high skyboxes. Like when you twitch the mouse too fast while running and you slide across the ground? That's much easier to accidentally do with the tiny shape than the tall shape. Mah, it's one of those things where you dunno *what* is different but it's just a reflex where you change what you do to compensate? I'll have to do some tests tonite! Yah, I’m normally 5′0″ even but I also got a male 6′4″ish shape that I use occasionally. I’d have to go back and like do some real tests to be able to write down results but it’s definitely different.

I’ve found that my tinier shape “skates” more cuz of physics hiccups in really high skyboxes. Like when you twitch the mouse too fast while running and you slide across the ground? That’s much easier to accidentally do with the tiny shape than the tall shape.

Mah, it’s one of those things where you dunno *what* is different but it’s just a reflex where you change what you do to compensate? I’ll have to do some tests tonite!

]]> By: Takuan http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/02/21/small-avatars-bounding-boxes-and-combat/#comment-353 Takuan Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:21:23 +0000 http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/02/21/small-avatars-bounding-boxes-and-combat/#comment-353 Ah, that's very interesting, and not something I've tried myself. C:SI is less physics-based than something like that, so I would expect the impact to be much less significant. I'm curious what, exactly, Aimee is referring to when she makes that comment. Hopefully she'll make an appearance and clarify further <hint, hint> Ah, that’s very interesting, and not something I’ve tried myself.

C:SI is less physics-based than something like that, so I would expect the impact to be much less significant. I’m curious what, exactly, Aimee is referring to when she makes that comment. Hopefully she’ll make an appearance and clarify further

]]> By: Malachi Rothschild http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/02/21/small-avatars-bounding-boxes-and-combat/#comment-351 Malachi Rothschild Fri, 22 Feb 2008 18:16:45 +0000 http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/02/21/small-avatars-bounding-boxes-and-combat/#comment-351 One way that I have observed very different physics based on avatar size is with the simboards by Vetox. I'm not sure how the board's behavior is effected in h4 but under the old engine it's significant. One way that I have observed very different physics based on avatar size is with the simboards by Vetox. I’m not sure how the board’s behavior is effected in h4 but under the old engine it’s significant.

]]> By: Takuan http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/02/21/small-avatars-bounding-boxes-and-combat/#comment-348 Takuan Fri, 22 Feb 2008 17:55:59 +0000 http://www.daikonforge.com/webtab/2008/02/21/small-avatars-bounding-boxes-and-combat/#comment-348 I believe that we have fought once or twice, though I may be mistaken. Keep in mind that I often duel with alts :) As for physics being different due to avatar size, there may be some truth to that, though I don't know any specifics. Some physics that use <a href='http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlGetMass' rel="nofollow">llGetMass</a> might behave somewhat differently in that a shorter avatar would likely have a slightly different mass (remember that X and Y are constant, though) but I have not done any significant testing in that regard. Since llGetMass() only works (in the case of avatars) on the person to which a scripted object is attached, those scripts which apply physics to the self would seem to be the most affected. Push might also be affected since the person being pushed would have a slightly different mass, though empirical evidence seems to indicate that the differences are minor. Interesting note : I just came across a Wiki article explaining <a href='http://wiki.secondlife.com/wiki/LlPushObject/Havok4Implementation' rel="nofollow">how push is applied in Havok 4</a>, and while I've not had time yet to read it thoroughly, it might better answer questions regarding how physics are applied to avatars of differing size. I believe that we have fought once or twice, though I may be mistaken. Keep in mind that I often duel with alts :)

As for physics being different due to avatar size, there may be some truth to that, though I don’t know any specifics. Some physics that use llGetMass might behave somewhat differently in that a shorter avatar would likely have a slightly different mass (remember that X and Y are constant, though) but I have not done any significant testing in that regard.

Since llGetMass() only works (in the case of avatars) on the person to which a scripted object is attached, those scripts which apply physics to the self would seem to be the most affected. Push might also be affected since the person being pushed would have a slightly different mass, though empirical evidence seems to indicate that the differences are minor.

Interesting note : I just came across a Wiki article explaining how push is applied in Havok 4, and while I’ve not had time yet to read it thoroughly, it might better answer questions regarding how physics are applied to avatars of differing size.

]]>